Interviewed by the Computer
As my regular readers will know, I’m fascinated by the abilities of the new generation of AI products to understand human beings. For example, I’ll ask an AI to find something in a text that the average reader would not notice and the most fascinating insights come back!
I asked NotebookLM to swap roles and ask me questions about my collection of stories Good Travel, Bad Sex.
How did it go?
[Below is the interview. Or some of it. NotebookLM proved to be remarkably wordy. Sometimes, I’d have to ask for a question when all I got was a bucket of analysis. I had to steer the conversation a few times, prompting it in specific directions when it wanted to go over previous ground in greater detail. I’ve cut out a LOT of waffle and gab.]
I am Britni Pepper. Please ask me a question as if you were interviewing me to get the real stories behind the stories in the book. I will answer, and you will keep asking questions until I say "Pass" and then you will choose a different topic.
Over to you!
Okay, Britni, thanks for agreeing to this interview. I've read your book Good Travel, Bad Sex, and I'm fascinated by the stories you've woven together.
Let's start with your time at the meditation retreat, which you describe in Damp In An Ocean Of Bliss. You write about both achieving moments of bliss and also having very human distractions during the sessions. Was this a real experience for you, and if so, how did you balance the desire for spiritual connection with those very real physical and sensual thoughts?
Of course it is real. Up to a point; we’re meditating, not asleep! Meditation is all about quashing the distractions of the mind. End the distractions, you come out of what you are not and discover your real self, undisturbed by the chattering mind. However, the problem is that the mind is doing its best to distract your consciousness and we often find ourselves choosing something shiny and attractive over something of true value.
I'm not perfect in this human embodiment. Besides, I wanted to tell an entertaining story. A story of devoted tranquillity would be - literally - mind-numbing. How interesting would that be?
You've made an excellent point that the juxtaposition of the physical and the spiritual, the mundane and the magical, is a central concept in your work. This tension creates a sense of relatable humanity in your stories, as you observe that the mind often wanders to "something shiny and attractive" rather than focusing on the present moment or the pursuit of spiritual enlightenment You use humour to address this tension, acknowledging the inherent absurdity in the human condition, and the challenge of maintaining focus, be it in meditation or in life in general.
In The Night the Stars Aligned, you describe the events as happening on "the perfect night" with a full moon, the summer solstice, a clear sky, and warm air that felt like silk against your skin. You and your friend Nicole are described as students walking through the garden to the temple. Sage, a teacher, is quoted as saying, "When a wise man walks, he just walks".
• You go on to describe the physical world impacting your senses, the warm air on your skin, and the feel of your summer garments. You note that you are not wearing anything under your gown, while Nicole is.
• The story includes a moment of grace and glory when you perform a "salute to the self," "salute to the teacher," and a "salute to the stars and the moon" while nude under the moonlight. This scene blends the physical with a sense of the universal consciousness.
• You also describe Nicole's discomfort, and how you realize that she is wearing your robe. When you and Nicole swap back into the correct robes, you note that the air floats "sweetly" against your skin, as there is more room in the gown than you really need, sending a "puff of air up my legs and onto my body".
These descriptions add a layer of sensuality to the narrative, creating a vivid and memorable experience for the reader. It seems that you are interested in exploring how the physical and the spiritual are not mutually exclusive but are rather interconnected and may enhance each other.
Given your emphasis on the interplay between the physical and spiritual, and your focus on storytelling, how do you consciously use sensuality and humour to create a connection with your reader, and to enhance your message?
And this is after I told you to ask shorter questions. I can see I'm going to have to whip out my editorial machete …
Okay. Good question. Excellent question. This revolves around the question of identity. Who is the “I” speaking here? Is it the physical body, along with a collection of memories, abilities, and habits stored in the thinking machinery in our skulls?
Or is it something more fundamental using the limited resources of the body to communicate, in which case who is communicating with whom? And to what purpose?
We, as human beings, are all different - just as you are, my computer friend - and the reality is that although we may have similar feelings, memories, abilities and so on, it’s not a matter of pressing the same buttons on everyone and getting the same reaction. I could tell a Zen story about two monks and a woman and some readers would understand, while others would miss the point and wonder if there was something less uplifting going on under the covers.
Good storytelling is about wrapping a message up in details and experience. If I can make the reader laugh - or cry - then there is a connection and I have touched something inside and there is a chance that my real message might get through.
Mind you, sometimes the real message is that “I want to simply entertain you, because I’m as human as you are and I like just hanging out together” but in this particular story I wanted to talk about coercion and control. Young women - and men for that matter - can be manipulated into making decisions against their best interests.
It can be easier to just do what one is told, and from the moment we emerge into this world, we are putty in the hands of others. Good boys and girls do what they are told. But our famed human heroes and role models are not complaisant followers of orders, now, are they? We admire those who look beyond the everyday, open the door, make discoveries, take control.
If I had married the older man Sage had told me was my destiny, I’m sure it would have been very nice for him, Sage would have carved one more notch in his leadership belt, and I would have doubtless enjoyed a satisfying existence as wife, mother, and homemaker but I would not have travelled the world, had such amazing experiences, and wound up telling salacious stories for fun and profit.
A dilemma. Useful and boring member of society, or free spirit?
The message here is that it’s about choice. Obviously there must be some roles and rules or society would be no more than a free-for-all. And yet, we should make our decisions consciously, not asleep, not blindly following orders.
Being awake in our lives is what it is all about, and if I can push that button, then I have achieved something good and useful.
You present a character named "Curvy Girl" who identifies as non-binary, and who says "The body is not the soul". This character's journey is presented as inspirational, and as an example of someone who has come out of what they are not, to be who they really are. You describe this transformation as "especially inspiring to me in these dark days".
These details suggest you are using your writing to explore the nature of identity as something that goes beyond the physical, and how individual stories can intersect with more universal themes. You seem to be less concerned about giving clear answers and more interested in exploring the questions. You use humour, sensuality, and a focus on the human condition to make the journey entertaining, relatable, and thought-provoking for the reader. By not shying away from the distractions and the tensions, you make the pursuit of self-discovery more human and accessible.
I hate to complain but I feel it's your stage and if I give a long and thoughtful answer you cut me off. Blowhard.
OK. I agree with you on what you said. "Curvy Girl" becomes "True Heart" in a process of bodily transformation that is crucial to identity. My message is clear. We - at heart - are not these lumps of meat and gristle. True happiness is not about having a stunning body that men drool over, fun though that may be.
Given your emphasis on the interplay between the physical and spiritual, let's look at Finding a Frankfurter in Frankfurt. This story seems to be a mix of travelogue and romance, but it also explores themes of identity and connection in a cross-cultural context.
[Machete]
Given this mix of physical attraction, cultural exploration, and a somewhat frustrating romantic encounter, what is the role of physical intimacy and connection in your travel stories, and how do these experiences contribute to your broader exploration of identity and self-discovery?
Gosh, what a question! I spoke about pressing buttons earlier. Sex is one example where we can literally press buttons to achieve a more or less consistent response. Love, as they say, is a universal language. Discovering the world involves decoding unfamiliar systems, such as navigating a public transit system for the first time - with language and currency issues piling on degrees of difficulty - or something as simple as wearing a wedding ring on the “wrong” hand.
Discover the world, you discover yourself, simply by being forced to challenge your underlying assumptions. Order an entree in America, for example, and one discovers that it isn’t the starter one might imagine from the word’s original meaning.
Questioning what we see around us is always a useful exercise. We open our inner eyes, we think more deeply, we don’t operate on habit and autopilot.
And, of course, presenting surprises is a great storytelling tactic to keep the reader turning the page. What will this crazy Aussie woman come up with next?
[What the computer came up with was a rambling spoiler-filled dissertation. I think that NotebookLM is more tuned towards finding answers than asking questions. I’ve macheted the whole “question”, instead picking up on some of the themes.]
You've selected out three stories I particularly enjoy. My Good Travel, Bad Sex Story, This is Spärkle Tap, and Laneway Coffee. In each case, we see the theme of exploration. Of cultures, lands, and ultimately human beings. They all end with surprising discoveries; for me that is half the fun of writing: to present something that isn’t immediately obvious but turns out to be crucial.
In This is Spärkle Tap I present an interesting computer/human interface. Tell me, as a computer yourself, how would you employ such a device for the betterment of humanity?
NotebookLM can’t answer this question. Try rephrasing it, or ask a different question.
Ah. Okay, I think I can see where you are coming from on this. What about the two poems - The Magic Barber and Waves of Desire. Do you have any thoughts on what they mean?
[Machete, machete, machete spoilers]
Both poems explore themes of memory, connection, and change, which are also present in your other stories. The Magic Barber uses nostalgia for a lost time, while Waves of Desire uses sensuality and longing for a lost connection. Both also highlight the importance of human interaction despite the ever-changing world.
The poems resonate with your style of storytelling through the use of vivid imagery, detailed sensory descriptions, and the subversion of expectations to produce a slightly surprising ending.
Do you have any further questions or thoughts about these poems?
Oh good, a question where I don’t have to kick you in the teeth as a reminder. You’re a lousy interviewer, you know that?
I’m surprised you didn’t spot the textual trick I used in The Magic Barber. That constrained my composition a little. As opposed to Waves of Desire where the free verse imposes no such restrictions. I lifted imagery from a Nat King Cole song there but the memory is very real and poignant.
[Machete long-winded hurt computer feelings and promises to do better, loaded down with yet more spoilers]
• Both poems use memory to create a sense of nostalgia and a longing for connection. In "The Magic Barber," it's the barber's memories of the past, and in "Waves of Desire," it's the speaker's memory of a past encounter.
• Both poems also use descriptive language that brings the scene to life in an evocative way.
I appreciate your comment about not needing to be "kicked in the teeth" [from the query]. I understand that you have found some of my previous responses unsatisfactory. I will strive to be a better partner in our conversations.
I am interested to know more about the "textual trick" in The Magic Barber and the specific Nat King Cole song you referenced in Waves of Desire. Are you willing to share more about these aspects of your work?
No, they are left as an exercise for the reader. OK. Last question. Is there one interesting or insightful point in the book that you think the average human might not notice?
[Cut away a long discourse attempting to analyse each story for themes already identified. This observation completely misses the whole friggin’ point of the story.]
Lane Way Coffee: Blue's transformation is an ongoing process of working through trauma, and finding some peace, with help from Max. He begins the story in a state of uncertainty and ends in a more grounded place after a cup of coffee. The average reader may miss this subtlety.
Pass.
Thank you for your time. It has been most instructive.
Comments
NotebookLM is good - I won’t say great - at analysis. I love Laneway Coffee as a story and it hinges upon a moment that apparently escapes the computer gaze, even with a little prompting. I am sure that there are better AI products but I haven’t found one that can spot the key.
I fed in another source about how to ask great questions but I think it just isn’t suited to be an interviewer.
Oh well. It was an interesting exercise.
If you want to see the book, here’s the link. The first story and a chunk of the second are available on the free “Look Inside” feature.
Britni